Justin Burniske

Cecilia Sepp (Host):

Hello, and welcome to this edition of AWTC Presents Her Story, a series where we profile our AWTC members. I'm your host, Cecilia Sepp. I'm also an AWTC member and am currently volunteering on the Marketing and Communications Committee.

In this edition, I'm really pleased to welcome Justin Berniski to the series. Justin, welcome! Would you like to say hello and tell us a little about yourself?

Justin Berniski (Guest):

Hello! Thank you, Cecilia, for having me on today. My name is Justin Berniski.

I am the Principal Consultant and Co-Owner at Meta-Dao, and I do a little bit of everything there. We're an IT consulting and software development company, and I focus more on the business side than the development side.

Although I like to say I could play a developer on TV!

Cecilia:

It's like me. I like to say I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on TV.

Justin:

There you go!

Cecilia:

The dangers of being a legal secretary at one point in my life.

Well, that's great. That sounds really interesting. How can people find out more about Meta-Dao? What's your website?

Justin:

It's meta-dao.com. We also have a product called Volunteer Me, which is volunteer-me.com. It's a volunteer recruitment and selection platform for associations that we're building out, and we think it's really exciting.

Cecilia:

Excellent! As a former volunteer leadership director, it sounds good to me. So everybody, go check that out. But let's learn a little more about you and your work with associations. How did you get started working with associations?

Justin:

That's a great question. It's almost like a seven degrees of separation kind of thing.

I was initially a teacher out of school. Then I left teaching and got a job at an education nonprofit. I was part marketing associate, part administrative assistant. Early in my career, I was booking flights and reservations, but also making website updates.

From there, I got hired at another education nonprofit that turned out to be an association: the Council of Chief State School Officers. They hired me because of my education background.

I was brought in to implement an AMS, which I'd never done before, so there was a lot of learning on the job. I've been in the association space ever since.

Cecilia:

Isn't that funny? We all kind of end up here just following our path. It doesn't necessarily start with saying, "I want to go work at an association."

Justin:

I think a lot of people at that association got there because they wanted to be in education, not because they wanted to work in associations.

I distinctly remember my boss announcing that she'd earned her CAE. There was a lot of silence, and the COO had to say, "That's a big deal. We should be celebrating that more."

People weren't aware of what that achievement meant, even at the association where they worked.

Cecilia:

Wow! That's a topic for another day. I have a lot of thoughts on that.

It sounds like you've had such a varied career, and it sounds like you really love what you do. Can you tell us about a time when you felt really good about your work?

Justin:

I'd go back to when I was working at the association, just before we were supposed to launch the AMS.

My boss said we couldn't give people access because she was worried staff would misuse the data and reach out to members directly. We'd spent nine months preparing, getting everything ready, and then launched without allowing people in.

Gradually, we got people involved and went through a whole process. I worked with the association to figure out how to define people's roles in the AMS. What were they actually supposed to do.

By the time I was leaving, the system was very much integrated into their processes. The executive director had attended a training session, which I felt was a big win in terms of buy-in. A lot of times, executive directors don't even bother to log into the AMS.

I was originally hired in the communications department, but I moved departments four or five times because they didn't know what to do with me and the AMS.

By the time I was leaving, one of my former colleagues in the communications department said, "I always thought this would fail. I assumed it just wouldn't work. We've tried this so many times, and it seemed like this was going to fail, but it looks like it's actually going to stick around."

It was kind of a weird compliment, but it felt really good. I realized I'd been successful in an endeavor that people had assumed wouldn't work even before I showed up.

That felt good.

Cecilia:

That does feel good! You're the one who made it work, so that's great.

It sounds like you got onto the path of technology without necessarily having a plan. You started out in education, doing different things, and eventually got into tech.

What advice has helped you along the way in your journey as a technology professional?

Justin:

Having a growth mindset has been really critical for me.

There's always something new to learn, and you can never assume you know everything. If you stay curious about what's around you, I think that will inevitably serve your career well and help you succeed over the long term.

A lot of that involves listening more than talking and trying to ask good questions.

Having that growth mindset is especially critical in the technology space right now, where it feels like everything is constantly changing.

Cecilia:

That's a good point. I know we're all talking about artificial intelligence and how it can help associations.

To our audience, let's not use it for customer service in a way that replaces human interaction. Let's make sure it's there to help us serve people, not try to fill that role.

I think you know what I mean, Justin, if you've ever tried talking to an AI chatbot for customer service and ended up in a loop!

We don't want that, because associations are about people. Since associations are about people and people using technology, where do you see technology leading associations in the future?

Justin:

I think AI creates an opportunity for associations to get more out of what they already have.

Associations have a wealth of data at their fingertips that they're not fully leveraging. They often don't have the bandwidth to figure out how to use it all.

Some larger companies are cutting staff because they think AI is going to replace jobs. I think that approach will probably backfire on a lot of people in the long term. But I do think AI offers real efficiencies.

When you have associations with staff of 10, 15, 20, or 40 people, there are so many little things they aren't able to automate right now.

My hope is that AI and other advancements in automation will continue to improve efficiency. That will allow associations to take full advantage of their data and the technology they already have available, providing even greater value to members.

That could mean more personalization and more direct information that appeals to members and helps people connect.

Ideally, associations will no longer have to spend so much time on manual data management and repetitive tasks. There are still many associations where staff have to re-enter data in multiple places or perform tasks that ideally should be automated.

If we can automate those activities, staff can focus on delivering greater value to their members.

Cecilia:

Let me ask you a quick follow-up. When you're looking at AI for associations, do you think it might eliminate the need for additional modules within an AMS environment?

For example, will we still need a separate learning management system (LMS) and a separate website?

There are integrated AMS systems, but sometimes you still have to add something else. Do you think AI might help alleviate that?

Justin:

I don't know that it would necessarily eliminate the need for those systems. In many ways, I'd almost expect us to see more one-off tools.

One of the challenges with AI right now is the concept of vibe coding, where you can generate an application.

For example, I wanted to do a team-building activity where staff entered their names and a fun fact. Then everyone could try to match each person's fun fact to the right person, and at the end, we had a scoreboard showing who got the most answers right and which questions people answered correctly.

I was able to create that whole thing in about 15 to 20 minutes. We made a couple of small tweaks, such as allowing people to go back and re-enter their information, but the tool came together quickly.

We used it once and then got rid of it.

I think the ability to generate these one-off tools will be so appealing that we may end up with more of them rather than having everything built into one system.

Of course, there's also the question of what happens to the data. If you're using these tools with members, that data may have value, so you need to consider where it goes and how it connects to your other systems.

With my team-building activity, I was fine with losing the data. I didn't need to know six months later who had done best.

I could see things going in the opposite direction from having one massive system. Ideally, AI will also help automate data movement between all these smaller systems. From a customer's perspective, things might actually feel more connected because associations will be better able to integrate their different tools.

But I don't know that we'll end up with one big solution, unless a particular tool emerges that everyone starts building on top of. That would be interesting, too.

I'm getting into speculation here, but it's an interesting area.

Cecilia:

It is! We have to move on, but that helps articulate what I was thinking. Perhaps we won't need to build out as many modules.

I've used a lot of different database systems over the years, so I'm thinking about integrations and how those might work.

Justin:

Right. So, not necessarily modules within the main system.

I think we could go in that direction, but at the same time, we might do custom development or build parts of a solution with AI and create modules much faster within one system.

For example, we might ask, "What if we added a community feature?" We could potentially build that in about two weeks. There would still be a lot of additional features we'd want to add to make it robust, but the initial development could happen quickly.

I could also see organizations building their own tools if they have the development skills on staff.

I think either direction is possible, and it'll be fascinating to see where we end up.

Cecilia:

Interesting! I agree. I think it's going to be very interesting over the next three years.

Let's move on and talk a little about AWTC. What do you like best about AWTC?

Justin:

I think it's definitely the community. It's a very active and engaged community.

Obviously, AWTC's W stands for women. I always try to find opportunities to be an ally in communities I'm not part of or don't personally identify with.

As a white man, I recognize that I have a lot of opportunities that aren't granted to other individuals. I want to recognize that privilege and use it to support other groups that may not directly benefit me.

Even as an ally, I get a lot of value out of AWTC because the community aspect is so important. It's great to connect with people and work on different problems and projects.

I also volunteer on the Marketing and Communications Committee and the Membership Subcommittee. It's been great to be on that side of association work again, helping solve some of those challenges.

Cecilia:

That's great!

And that makes me think that maybe our Membership Subcommittee should be a Membership Committee, perhaps a separate committee. But that's another conversation for another day.

I don't know why I hadn't thought about that until you mentioned it!

This is my last question for you, Justin. You obviously love being part of AWTC. You're a great volunteer, you show up, and you're always helpful.

Why should someone get involved in AWTC and sign up as a member?

Justin:

If you're a woman, I think the community is really strong and powerful. The opportunity to collaborate with other individuals who are likely experiencing similar challenges can be really empowering.

I'm a bit of a wallflower sometimes, observing the community, and I've seen a lot of great conversations happening. People ask questions and receive a lot of valuable feedback.

That opportunity to grow your career and connect with people who may be facing similar challenges can be really empowering.

As an ally, I think it's important to get involved and contribute to communities. I'd encourage anyone who might not think they belong to consider joining and finding ways to celebrate women. We can all do with more celebration of women.

It's also a lot of fun. I've definitely enjoyed all the events and all the people.

I encourage anyone to get involved. And as a member of the Membership Subcommittee, I should probably be promoting it, too!

Please visit the website. There's no fee, and I'd encourage anyone who believes in the mission to sign up and join. It's been a lot of fun.

Cecilia:

Excellent! And there's that added responsibility of being a representative of the Membership Subcommittee. That was a great endorsement.

Thank you for joining me on this episode of Her Story, Justin.

Justin:

Thank you for having me. I appreciate the time and the opportunity. I feel a little humbled to join this storied franchise of Her Story.

Cecilia:

Thank you for that!

As we wrap up this episode, I'd like to encourage everyone out there to visit our website at awtc.tech.

You can find a list of all our upcoming events, most of which have no fee attached and are open to everyone. Make Justin happy and fill out the membership form! It's the most valuable no-fee membership on the planet.

That value is driven by the strength of the community.

You can also find the other Her Story episodes featuring our members on our website homepage. Go to the About menu and select the dropdown to learn more about the fabulous people who make up AWTC.

Thank you for joining us for this edition of AWTC Presents Her Story, and we'll see you in the future!